Conversations with a Zionist

So this random dude decides to message me on facebook and criticize my beliefs on being critical of the Israeli occupation of Palestine. This is the extended conversation that took place over a couple of days. I am Bloodred. He is Zev the Zionist. Will update should it continue...

Zev the Zionist: me dear friend, it is obvious that you are not watching the news and cetanly havent visited the gaza for the past month, but, if u were, then u could find out that it is not an occupation any more, and that it is a war between two well organized and equiped armies, so for the next time before you getting your head out of your ass, just check what is going on in reality, and maybe if u were that motivated even perhaps vistied the area right now to show your brave support.

unfortunately my friend your words and knowldge do not have any sense, bc u are here.. and it makes you A no one.please keep w your peaceful life and astay away of issues that you are not well aknowledged with.


Bloodred: Gaza is the worlds largest prison camp. Israel has maintained a blockade causing a humanitarian disaster. That to me reeks of an occupation. Not to mention the fundamental right of return to '48 Palestine is not being addressed.

From the UN General Assembly on Human Rights in OPT:
"Terrorism is a scourge, a serious violation of human rights and international humanitarian law. No attempt is made in the reports to minimize the pain and suffering it causes to victims, their families and the broader community. Palestinians are guilty of terrorizing innocent Israeli civilians by means of suicide bombs and Qassam rockets. Likewise...the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) are guilty of terrorizing innocent Palestinian civilians by military incursions, targeted killings and sonic booms that fail to distinguish between military targets and civilians. All these acts must be condemned and have been condemned.

Common sense, however, dictates that a distinction must be drawn between acts of mindless terror, such as acts committed by Al Qaeda, and acts committed in the course of a war of national liberation against colonialism, apartheid or military occupation. While such acts cannot be justified, they must be understood as being a painful but inevitable consequence of colonialism,"

"Israel remains the occupying Power in Gaza despite its claim that Gaza is a "hostile territory". This means that its actions must be measured against the standards of international humanitarian law and human rights law. ..."

I have been to the West Bank and seen the attrocities for myself. I have seen the illegal settlements, the illegal check points, the illegal apartheid wall, the illegal refugee camps. I have witnessed first hand the dehumanization of the Palestinian people inside and outside of Israel. Collective punishment is a WAR CRIME!! I WOULD have gone into Gaza had I been allowed to but alas, the mighty state of Israel was preventing any humanitarian aid from getting in.

I am in touch with human rights workers who are on the ground in Gaza right now showing exactly whats going on.So for your infinte wisdom: I am "acknowledged" in this and an attack on one persons human rights is an attack on all of ours. Be it in Israel or colonial occupation here in north america of Indigenous lands. Are you seriously saying the Gazans are well equipped? Fuck man, youre as delusional as you are retarded apparently.


Zev The Zionist: keep living in your pink bubble in your rich fat country, believing that you are actually doing something. if u were fighting against the hamas or the hizballa, then u know that they are very well organized and equipped, we are not fighting ppl with burning bottles my friend. moreover, as being not only ans israeli but an immigrant from azerbajan who escaped armanian/jewish jenocide, witnissed and participated in a war, it is always the children, the women, and the elder, who suffer but that is how it alwys was and will be bc it is the human nature. im not trying to change your point ov view, it that your enthusiasm to enforce yours on others is what made me to respond to your non objective answers. happy new years buddy, eat, sleep, live well.


Bloodred: so because of zionist rhetoric im supposed to condone the butchering of women and children? because terrible things happenned to jews, armenians, and races all over the world were supposed to chalk it up to human nature? are you serious?

ill admit as an individual i am pretty helpless, but the point is to build an international movement to fight military and colonial oppression and violence. hezbollah and hamas were able to gain power because people in those areas have no hope. they presented a tangible resistance to oppressed people. well adjusted, non oppressed people generally dont align themselves with fundamentalists. all blood spilled is on the hands of the zionists. theyre the ones who created the resistance because of their racist apartheid policies.

Its easy to tell people to be objective when you are the one who supports the oppressor. my enthusiasm comes from a desire to confront racism and oppression wherever I see it. Apart from going to Palestine and standing in front of soldiers and settlers who shoot children (which ive done) all i can do is support movements that challenge zionism wherever it manifests. so fuck your "pink bubble" theory. last time I checked...israel was one of the richest countries in the world (mainly due to aid from the US but thats neither here nor there).

Im not going to enforce my views on anyone. once presented with the truth any rational person is going to realise that all the zionist, imperial lobbying that gets done is simply there to cover up the racist policies of the state of israel. international pressure worked to eliminate racist apartheid south africa and it will work for racist apartheid israel.


Zev the Zionist: listne man, i dont know what are u smoking but the last time i checked my ppl and the arabs are the same race, semites, therefore the separation is due to ideological reasons and not racial. zionism was created bc jews needed to live in a country without beeing presecuded, since jews and arabs fought sonce biblical times, i think that your ass should stay out of this, plz dont write me back anymore, since your views dont interest us.. i wish u could go back to gaza for my intellegent and brave friend, to meet myself and my brigade from the other side.


Bloodred: Jews and Arabs have NOT fought since Biblical times. There are numerous reports of both religions acting cooperatively in times of persectution. Palestinians provided many safe havens for Jews in times of persecution. This is Zionist rhetoric you are spouting in an attempt to justify the colonization of Judea and Sumeria and ethnically cleanse the land of people who had been there for generations. Now, people who have absolutely NO geneological ties can claim citizenship in Israel strictly because of adherence to a religion, but someone who grew up in Jaffa and now lives 20 miles from where they lived cant return home.

You can argue semantics all you want. It doesn't change the fact that Israel is practicing forced segregation (apartheid) and collective punishment (war crime) on Arabs. Palestinians should be afforded the right of return just as Jews should be able to live in peace wherever they settled. So because Europe persecuted Jews in the early 20th century its ok to do the same to the Palestinians right? Not to mention the racism Palestinian Israelis deal with on a regular basis inside Israel proper.

Wow..you've got guns. Id love to see how well Israel does without the support of the US. This whole "might makes right" is archaic, inhumane and neolithic. Because youve got guns its OK to shoot women and children. Because you've got Tanks its ok to blockade food and medical supplies. And the Israelis wonder why the attacks keep happening. And

Your "brigades" are full of 18 year olds who have been brainwashed and wouldnt know how to think independently if they were afforded the right.

So whatever, you can choose to support murder and the breaking of international law because you buy into this ideology. And you can also choose to have your family in Beer Sheva live in constant fear of rockets. Until basic human rights are observed, and collective punishment ends, there will be conflict.I should have known this would degrade into an "I know people with guns and I will shoot you" argument. I am dealing with a zionist.

Zev the Zionist: 1. ppl in our army are rated higher when they show better ability to make decisions themselves, it appeares from your words u didnt know that

2. jews were persecuted for 2000+ yrs, having no country

3. they still are persecuded

4. for your knowledge, these mother fuckers carry their kids, wives and neightbours with them, as human shields, so that israel would look bad when trying to kill them, plus they get 15 min alert ahead before being attacked by our forces.

5. israel paid forever for their fucking electricity and water6. the right of return was made up be jews to secure other jews and not anyone else7. jews and arabs did fight since biblical times (and lived and peace for a while when it was in both sides interest) mention that jews were always been the underdog

it seems that you are the brain washed one my friend, i dont really understand your ignorant passion, but you are redicilously funny. i must admit that from your writings u are not aweare of a lot of things, behind the news, tv, and even what ppl say on the street in gaza, bc after all their mass majority is ignorant as well. i know it is fraustrating to live when your neighbour's grass and turkey is greener and fatter, but it is not israel's duty to keeps these fucks happy (althought it always did more than everybody else will do).

i was born in a shaid country, and know what a shaid soul is, you would never understand, bc it is not your fight, not in your childhood or blood.


Bloodred: Human shields? Kind of like the Israeli Occupation Force does?

http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/20060720_Human_Shields_in_Beit_Hanun.aspThe

rocket attacks will stop when the occupation ends. It's really quite simple. Political zionism is a scourge on the Jewish people and I'm glad I work with Jews who are disgusted by the Zionist occupation of Palestine.

The right of return is a fundamental human right "made up" by the United Nations to prevent ethnic cleansing. 700,000 Palestinians left their homes to avoid the fighting and because of rumours of torture and killing. They have the right to return home. Theyre the ones who have actually lived there and can show an actual bloodline dating back hundreds of years. Not an ashekenazi who emmigrated from Germany to Brooklyn.

Israel has continued on a rampant path of colonization in the West Bank, systematically taking the higher ground and securing water resources. Imposing collective punishment on people who have been ripped from their homes.

Again...because Jews were persecuted and oppressed, it gives them the right to do it to others? Thats some seriously backwards thinking dude.

Fighting Imperial agression is the job of anyone with a sense of justice. Home or abroad, opression takes many forms and its the duty of those who feel no human has the right to oppress another to stand up and confront it. In fifty years people will look on Zionism the same way they look on Nazism; in disgust.

The mass majority is ignorant? Ill gladly have a society based on the majority than your proposed one on the wrong side of a barell of a gun. What you speak of is nothing short of facism my friend. Didnt we learn anything from Hitler? And you zionists seem to be so proud of your so called democracy.

And just so you know, according to the United Nations, Israel, as the occupying power IS responsible for providing humanitarian aid (like water and electricity) because theyre the ones who control it. Its international law. Look it up.

The proverbial Grass and Turkey's got greener and fatter on cheap Arab labour pre first intifada....but you were barely a pup so Im sure you dont remember.

From the UN: The test for determining whether a territory is occupied under international law is effective control, and not the permanent physical presence of the occupying Power's military forces in the territory in question.

Judged by this test it is clear that Israel remains the occupying Power as technological developments have made it possible for Israel to assert control over the people of Gaza without a permanent military presence. Israel's effective control is demonstrated by the following factors:

(a) (a) Substantial control of Gaza's six land crossings: the Erez crossing is effectively closed to Palestinians wishing to cross to Israel or the West Bank. The Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza, which is regulated by the Agreement on Movement and Access entered into between Israel and the Palestinian Authority on 15 November 2005 (brokered by the United States, the European Union and the international community's envoy for the Israeli disengagement from Gaza), has been closed by Israel for lengthy periods since June 2006. The main crossing for goods at Karni is strictly controlled by Israel and since June 2006 this crossing too has been largely closed, with disastrous consequences for the Palestinian economy;

(b) Control through military incursions, rocket attacks and sonic booms: sections of Gaza have been declared "no-go" zones in which residents will be shot if they enter;

(c) Complete control of Gaza's airspace and territorial waters;

(d) Control of the Palestinian Population Registry: the definition of who is "Palestinian" and who is a resident of Gaza and the West Bank is controlled by the Israeli military. Even when the Rafah crossing is open, only holders of Palestinian identity cards can enter Gaza through the crossing; therefore control over the Palestinian Population Registry is also control over who may enter and leave Gaza. Since 2000, with few exceptions, Israel has not permitted additions to the Palestinian Population Registry.

The fact that Gaza remains occupied territory means that Israel's actions towards Gaza must be measured against the standards of international humanitarian law.